For Immediate Release
January 29, 2009
Contact: DNC Press (202) 863-8148
Statement of DNC Chairman Governor Tim Kaine on Signing of Historic Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act
Washington, DC — DNC Chairman Governor Tim Kaine issued the following statement following President Barack Obama’s signing of his first bill, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act to ensure all American workers are treated fairly under the law:
“By signing this historic bill, President Barack Obama made good on his promise to ensure that every American is treated fairly under the law. Women still make only 78 cents for every dollar men earn, creating a disparity that hurts not only women but all of our families. As we work to address the current economic crisis, it’s more important than ever that our economy works for everyone and protections are in place to prevent pay discrimination. Following a strong legislative effort, I’m particularly proud that it was our new President who signaled the importance of the principle of equal pay for equal work by making it the first bill signed during his presidency.”
Sometimes I like to stir the pot. Spoon, meet pot.
Women still make only 78 cents for every dollar men earn, creating a disparity that hurts not only women but all of our families. BY GOD THAT SOUNDS UNFAIR! If only it were… true. See, women make 98% of what men make when you control for experience, education and years on the job. Rather than totally set myself up for a haranguing, I’ll let you argue with the feminists. http://www.iwf.org/campus/show/18948.html
Lilly Ledbetter got screwed, no doubt about it. But frankly, I was hoping we’d moved beyond the manipulation of scientific information for political gain. Obama promised a more scientific view now that he’s in office. Too bad for all of us that neither party is listening.
I’d just like to add that I’m a little off today. If I were really on it, I’d say women get paid less because they take more sick days on average in a year (because of PMS), they take maternity leave lowering their statistical pay per years of service, they often quit when their husbands move for a job, they take more days off for sick kids, and more often have custody of kids after a divorce, increasing tardiness, decreasing attention, and reducing their work-flexibility. Also, men tend to be more aggressive, especially where pay is concerned. AKA – women don’t ASK (just as Lilly didn’t ask). But I’m not saying that, because that would make me an asshole. Even if it is, statistically, relevant. (And fortunately, my wife kicks ass and makes at least as much as her male counterparts.)
Pot, consider thyself stirred.
PMS, are you fucking kidding me?
I was going to leave this alone. I blame Bell for breaking my New Year’s Resolution.
But what the hell? You’re trying to say that things are too equal, because they’re not and men in our society can’t handle both secular and family responsibilities, so the women have to, and because women aren’t self-absorbed asshats, they are too getting a fair wage? Your argument defeats itself.
(Exception for manly men who actually take time off to care for sick children, but according to Sgt_Jake real men don’t do that in our society)
Hardly. I’m saying that, when you use logic, and math, you can clearly see that there is no gender based wage gap. The 78 cents on the dollar figure was disproved (yet again) in 2005. By JUNE O’NIELL, former director of the congressional budget office. Women make 98% of what men make when you account for things that skew the results. Like being a single parent. A single parent can’t travel on a moments notice. They have to take more sick days (when their kids get sick). They’re late more often. They are, frankly, demi-gods doing the impossible, but less flexible employees. And in this country, a single parent is 75% more likely to be a woman, because women get custody in 75% of divorce battles. Which skews the wage-gap figures. This figure is amplified by the fact that single women HAVE to work, meaning – statistically – more women in the workplace are SINGLE PARENTS, which means, statistically, they’ll get paid less due to their decreased ability to contribute. Male single parents suffer the same gap. It sucks, but it’s not a gender issue, it’s a ‘being a single parent’ issue.
PMS has been shown to statistically skew the results of the wage-gender-gap calculation. Not a lot, but it has an effect. That’s not an indictment of women, their work ethic, or their ability to do the same work – it’s a indictment of bad math producing misleading results.
So you see – there isn’t a wage gap at all. There’s a problem with people not understanding logic. Or math. Or statistics. Wait a minute… are YOU saying women are incapable of understanding logic and math?
Again, I curse Bell for this….
Your logic is flawed. Can I understand logic and math? Well, as a software engineer I damn well hope so.
Other than extreme cases, I’ve never heard of a mom, single or otherwise, having any regular sort of need to take time off of work above and beyond what is normally given as benefits for these family duties you mention.
Assuming that you are correct though, I think what you are proposing is that women should not only be paid the same, but they should be given extra paid time off, so that they can take some as actual vacation, rather than taking care of the snot nosed brats waiting for them at home.
What a brilliant idea, Sgt_Jake!
Mothers across the country will be forever in your debt.
Except for that decreased ability to contribute comment. Oh, and the PMS one. Oh and you forgot the fact that not all women are mothers, or all the women with supportive families who help with child care. And just one more…the kids don’t stay small forever. So only a portion of women even fall into the category you’re talking about.
Let’s not even get into the fact that there are so few women in my industry that I’ve almost always been “the” woman on the team, and seen as an oddity, making salary comparisons impossible, largely because we’re still told that we’re “not logical enough”.
I damn well guarantee that a single mother, who is afraid of losing her job, is going to be far more flexible than the overconfident white guy, no matter how much less she makes. Meaning even fewer women are the sniveling idiots who can’t do math or process logic that you described above, Sgt_Jake.
The Paleolithic Era called, they want their stereotypes back.
This is all anecdotal but I’m going to chime in here as well.
The PMS thing is BS. I’ve yet to know one woman who has taken off a day for it. I’ve known one who had a day or two off for severe cramps – that’s not PMS, but related to women’s cycles, of course.
I can also say that I earn less than most guys I know with equal or less education and work experience – but of course this is anecdotal.
When I was a single mom, I was never late to work. The only sick days I took were for my child, and was far less than many of the men in the same office where I worked.
I have taken time off after my second child was born, but only for two reasons. One was that my husband made quite a bit money more than I did, and breastfeeding is so much better than bottle.
I do believe things are getting better, and that women’s wages are getting closer to men’s but I highly doubt the 98 cents to the dollar figure. There’s also the huge gender gap in management positions, CEOs and gov’t representatives. If things were anywhere near equal, we’d see figures that more closely match the population percentage-wise.
I do like to see that traditional gender roles are now breaking down and people are doing what makes them happy rather than what’s expected of them. There are more and more stay-at-home dads and women pursuing professional goals. It’s very exciting to see the changes, but it’s a bad idea to say that we’ve already arrived at equality.
Again, http://www.iwf.org/campus/show/18948.html
You’re not arguing with me, your arguing with multiple peer reviewed studies performed by individuals, universities and governments – some of whom are even hard core feminists. Your anecdotal experiences aside, THERE IS NO WAGE GAP! Women make as much as their male counterparts in almost every industry when you account for experience, years on the job and education.
I noticed that you didn’t actually say – do you make as much as your male counterparts? Or do you make more? Being the only woman on the team isn’t a mans fault and really doesn’t matter – do you make as much as your colleague or not? (If not, you need to start bitching…)
I’m not arguing that all women are mothers, single parents, don’t have supportive families. But I am saying that statistically there are more single mothers than single fathers. It skews the results. A woman who takes 4 years off (like my wife did) after having kids isn’t going to make as much as her male counterpart who didn’t take any time off even if they’re doing the same job. — And interestingly enough, she does.
My WHOLE argument is that there is no gender based wage gap. The statistics were WRONG. The calculations were bad. Your perception of there being a gender based wage gap is incorrect. I’m not being misogynistic, I’m thinking critically. The gender based wage gap is a myth. It’s not true. Doesn’t exist. All evidence to the contrary is provably anecdotal.
[Jennifer – I did not see your response when I made my last reply. I wasn’t demeaning your anecdotal experience… seriously… sorry it it sounded personal – it really wasn’t.]
There’s also the huge gender gap in management positions, CEOs and gov’t representatives… Also widely studied, and with the exception of gov., not a gender issue. Only in the last 20 years have women aggressively aspired to executive positions. Fewer women go into the fields that result in high level executive positions (as I’m sure Saintless will attest) – engineering, accounting, and so on. That’s changing rapidly, and the rise of the woman executive is reflected in this change. By way of example, consider the following executives: Anne Sweeney, Disney Media Networks co-chairman; Amy Pascal, chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment Motion Picture Group and co-chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment; Nancy Tellem, president of CBS Paramount Network Television Entertainment Group; Stacey Snider, co-chairman and CEO of DreamWorks; Bonnie Hammer, president of USA Network and Sci Fi Channel; Judy McGrath, chairman and CEO of MTV Networks; Parent, chairwoman of the Worldwide Motion Picture Group at MGM; Dana Walden, chairman of 20th Century Fox Television; and Nina Tassler, president of CBS Entertainment. Oh yeah – Oprah Winfrey.
The gender-pay-gap is something that sounds right – but simply isn’t. The case of the woman who makes less than the man because she’s a woman is the exception to the rule – not the norm. In every other case, there’s a good reason for it.
I have an anecdotal story of my own. For 5 years I worked as the operations manager for a financial services company. For all 5 of those years I made less than half of the going industry rate, even accounting for the location differential. That amounted to $60,000 per year. Not including the bonus that was calculated based on pay. True story – I was paid 60K less PER YEAR than my peers for 5 YEARS. But I’m clearly not a woman. So why was I not getting paid the same as my peers? — Because I didn’t think I’d get the job if I didn’t take that first offer. It took me 10 years of working my ass off (and bitching) to make what the industry pays for that position. And I’m still, just barely, at the bottom of the range. I clearly got screwed, but I don’t for a second think it was based on anything other than my unique position. I didn’t have the education or experience when I took the job to justify getting the job in the first place. I was lucky, and happy to take it. If I were a woman, that would be called a gender gap. Because I’m a man, it’s simply my circumstance.
So both of you, understand, I’m all about equal pay. That would have increased my bottom line today by a MINIMUM of $300,000 dollars! But it probably would have blown my chance at the job. So again, when you account for education, experience and years on the job, there IS no pay gap. The gender based pay gap is a myth. Pay gaps can, in almost all cases, be easily explained by individual circumstance – not gender.
Oh yeah – women in government. I feel for you, seriously. Women are less likely to get voted in. But senators, sergeants and FBI agents all make the same amount of money based on their pay grade and years of service, not their gender, so the wage-gap problem[MYTH] doesn’t apply.
Finally, PMS.
I know this argument really pisses you off. It is, frankly, offensive. But I’m not just making wild assumptions based on my irrational fear of maxi-pad commercials, I’m trying my best to look at the available evidence. And it suggests that 11% of the wage gap is the result of increased absenteeism due to menstruation.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w12369
Again?
http://www.comtecmed.com/APCOC/2008/Uploads/assets/extended%20abstracts/m%20cronin%20pms.pdf
I’m not just making it up to be an asshole. I’m pointing it out to be an asshole, but I’m not making it up. 😉